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In this interview, Mary Alice Dwyer-Dobbin talks about the two shows closest to her heart, As the World Turns and Guiding Light -- and the challenges facing daytime drama in the new millennium.
Attracting Viewers
Daytime soap operas are challenged today. We don't have the same audience numbers that we used to have. We don't have the same frequency of viewing that we once had, and so we are all working to find ways to get our regular audience to watch more frequently and to get more people watching. We are all trying different strategies to do that. The first is with good storytelling, with well-drawn characters, and good actors and writers. Once you have all that in place, then you have to ask, “What kind of stories can I tell, and what can I do to attract a fallen-away viewer?” Or to say to someone who hasn't tried the show before, “Hey, there are some interesting things going on on this show that are current and entertaining and will involve you in a way that perhaps soap operas didn't involve you before.” To that end I applaud the chances that the shows are taking and that management at all three networks is encouraging the shows to take.
As the two oldest shows on the air, Guiding Light and As the World Turns have some very specific challenges to keep the shows fresh and appealing, not just to the veteran viewers who have been with us for 47 or 51 years (or maybe even the 66 years since Guiding Light started on radio); but we also have to attract younger viewers. This is especially true on CBS whose ratings historically have always skewed a little bit older.
As the World Turns Goes to College
Last year, in an effort to attract some younger viewers, As the World Turns decided to do a storyline that would take it to 10 different college campuses; we chose the markets where both CBS and As the World Turns were strong. We wanted to get support from the local affiliates on the one hand, and we wanted to motivate people who were watching already to help us draw in more viewers. We had four different dates around which we built print/public relations efforts and broadcast/public relations efforts both on the local affiliate as well as on radio in those markets and on the campuses. First, we went [to the colleges] for a production survey. We achieved good public relations when we visited each of the markets to survey the campuses for shooting. Then we returned with a casting bus and we had an open casting call attended by hundreds on each one of the campuses, where we cast local young actors to appear on the show. We returned to shoot the show, using the actors and the campuses, and then the segments aired. We were very successful in those markets in terms of being able to quantify increased younger demos, 18-34.
Subsequent to that, CBS' Early Show ran a talent contest whereby we brought in one actor from each of those markets who auditioned on the air with one of our As the World Turns stars. Then the viewers voted for the actor and actress whom they felt deserved to get roles on the show. This past summer the two winners had nice roles for several days: Courtney Cole from Vanderbilt University in Nashville played Connie, a model and friend of Jennifer, and Jon Rowland from Butler University in Indianapolis played Ned, Lucy's SAT tutor.
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Peyton List (Lucy) and Agim Kaba (Aaron) with Early Show screen test winners Courtney Cole (Connie) and Jon Rowland (Ned). The college tour was successful enough to warrant a second round. |
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Our storyline featured three of our younger characters: Lucy (Peyton List), Aaron (Agim Kaba) and Alison (Jessica Dunphy). Craig (Hunt Block), Holden (Jon Hensley) and Hal (Ben Hendrickson) also got involved, so we had an integration of the older characters and the younger characters. Aaron was wrongly accused of a crime and because he knew he wasn't responsible for it, he went on the run and the two girls went with him. That storyline continues to play out and we'll be seeing some more fallout and repercussions from certain aspects of those character relationships this fall.
Guiding Light's Turn
We have done the same thing for Guiding Light, not with a remote tour, but by going to the University of Georgia, the University of Miami, the University of Pittsburgh, Northwestern University and the University of Denver to audition young actors and bring the winners to New York for live auditions on The Early Show the week of Nov. 10.
What has been most gratifying to us is that our 18-34 demos are substantially higher than they were at this time last year. So, slowly but surely I do believe we are finding ways within the shows themselves and with other correlating activities to build awareness and attract some new younger viewers.
We need to keep our longtime viewers satisfied and at the same time attract new viewers. We strive to find ways to integrate our veteran characters in story and side by side with our younger characters. In fact, Guiding Light will be launching a major mystery story in the fall which will involve all the veterans and their children.
Reva's Psychic Gifts
On Guiding Light, Reva is going through a period of self-discovery. She is not sure whether or not she really has psychic power, what this gift means and how to use it. So she is still learning. With our happily married couples, we have to tell stories that keep them actively engaged and in conflict with something without necessarily being in conflict with each other. Reva and Josh at this point are involved in arenas that are testing them, but their marriage is strong; the road is not always easy for them. They have been married to each other for the third time. We hope that this time will indeed be forever, for better or worse.
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Kim Zimmer (Reva) and Robert Newman (Josh) deal with the tragedy of Shayne's car accident in one of their most dramatic storylines to date. |
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We can dabble in otherworldly areas, but we have to do it very carefully. Reva has been involved in some outrageous developments over the course of her life, and I think quite honestly in comparison to her past, having the gift of second sight is not nearly as far out as some of her earlier endeavors. We think it's in keeping with her character.
The Proof is in the Story
We have had some fun escapist storylines on our shows. I enjoyed on many levels the cloning of Reva, which was very controversial but came out of character, for both Josh and Reva. One of the reasons we did that story at that time is because we needed to get Guiding Light talked about. The show was not on people's radar screen. We also needed to attract younger viewers and when that storyline was playing, our 18-34 demos were up. It was well-written, well-performed and the death of the clone in Reva's arms was so beautifully played, you couldn't watch it without getting a tear in your eye.
I also enjoyed the love story of Cassie and Richard in San Cristobal because it was pure escapism. Another favorite story of mine was the moving childhood leukemia story with Lizzie, which concerned a child and a family dealing with a serious health issue.
Lily's discovery of Rose as her twin sister on As the World Turns has been a very effective storyline. It was the creation of a whole new character for Martha Byrne to play and she has played Rose wonderfully. The character of Rose has allowed her to open up Lily in a different way. We always struggle to keep fan-favorite couples happy but engaged actively in meaningful stories. When you marry two people who are destined for each other as Lily and Holden are, you have to work very hard to find ways to keep them together; and even when they are apart, they are still connected and will always be connected. The creation of Rose allowed us to do that for Lily.
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Byrne, baby, Byrne: Martha Byrne tackles the role of Rose with gusto, providing a brassy counterpart to the refined Lily. |
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The Guiding Light audience will have to stay tuned to see if and when Jeffrey (Bradley Cole) and Cassie (Laura Wright) ever feel an attraction for each other. There was a great deal of animosity between the characters when Jeffrey first appeared on the canvas. Since then, he heroically saved Cassie's life. I am sure that she now sees him in a different light but Jeffrey has an eye for the women and he is certainly starting to meet some of the other ladies of Springfield. Cassie has also found a new Edmund who has been struggling to become a better person.
Recasting for the Right Reasons
We are always sorry when we lose an actor who is integral to the storytelling. We have been very fortunate in casting some very talented young people. We are all pleased when we can find an effective recast. We brought in a new actress, Jennifer Ferrin, to play Jennifer on As the World Turns because the storyline dictated it when Paul was presumed dead. Then Paul returned, played by a new actor (Roger Howarth). Part of Paul's drive is to take care of his family. It made sense to have his sister there. We cast Roger Howarth because we think he is the actor who is perfect for this role and he is bringing some values to this role that we didn't feel we had before, given the story direction we wanted to take.
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Roger Howarth (Paul) and Jennifer Ferrin (Jennifer) made the recasting process that much easier, having stepped into their roles nicely. |
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It is a mistake to think that just because an actor is popular on one soap means that he will necessarily bring fans with him to a new soap. Fans stay loyal to their shows as long as their shows give them what they want. An actor is so integrally wound up in his character that it is "actor as the character" who is popular. When the actor comes to a new show, he plays a different character and if fans come with him they may not recognize this new character. They may be frustrated by what they see. I am always looking for a good actor when I recast. It may be that I am lucky enough to get a recognizable face. That doesn't hurt, but that is not the main reason for doing it.
Another World
When I came to Procter & Gamble, Another World was still airing and got cancelled after celebrating its 35th anniversary. [It still has fans out there and a special reunion of Another World's actors aired Oct. 24 on SoapNet.] It was a very difficult event and I think that no cancellation has affected me as much. Chris Goutman, who is currently the executive producer of As the World Turns, had been producing Another World for six months. Given six more months, I think he would have been able to turn it around and make it acceptable to NBC. But they had a timetable in mind and they had a target audience that they felt Another World was not capable of delivering. They were looking for teenaged viewers, and because of Another World's long life, they felt it could not meet these goals.
Excellence Behind the Scenes
As the World Turns and Guiding Light have been reinvigorated with the contributions of my two executive producers: Chris Goutman and John Conboy. The shows are very different and each has its own challenges. Guiding Light has an exceptionally small studio. It is very difficult to write for the studio and not easy to produce for the studio. John has been doing some amazing things in the studio. Both shows are blessed with exceptionally gifted writers: Hogan Sheffer (As the World Turns) and Ellen Weston (Guiding Light). Hogan has won two Emmys in just four years of writing for daytime, and Ellen Weston has been involved in daytime but never quite to this extent.
Always a Need to Find Fresh Talent
One of the things that I think is extremely important for all executives in daytime dramas is to find fresh blood. It is a very difficult day part to produce and write for and even to perform in. It is incumbent upon us not to keep using the same people over and over, although there is nothing wrong with using talented and experienced individuals, but we need new ideas. It is easy to get burned out in this day part because it never stops, has no down time and no rerun period. You have to be a very special kind of person to keep working day in and day out. There are periods when it is time to take a rest. Writers who are writing for contemporary audiences have to find ways to refresh their imaginations. They have to read novels, magazines and newspapers and be au courant with what is happening in television and movies to understand the taste of the audience. To be a soap writer you must first and foremost be a storyteller with a million stories in your head, and you have to know how to organize the material in a way that works for daytime. You may have a good story but if it is not well told you won't be as successful as you need to be. You also have to be able to manage your team and the details, such as how many sets you can use every day, and how many characters you can use every day without going over budget.
This is not the glory days of the 1980s when we had a much greater number of viewers. Women aren't out there and available to watch the way they used to be. They have so many different lifestyles, viewing choices, activities in their daily lives that take them away from the home. When we don't have the number of viewers, the networks aren't making as much money as they wish they were making or as they used to be making from soap operas and consequently budgets are being decreased across the board.
Promoting from Within
We are always looking for new producers or writers or directors. We have been able to bring along some of our young people as writers. My assistant Kimberly Hamilton came to us because she won a college writing contest that we conducted a number of years ago. She joined us first as a part-time intern, them came on board permanently as my assistant and had the opportunity to take advantage of a couple of internal writing workshops that we held. She is now a contract script writer on Guiding Light. Our writers' assistant at Guiding Light, Danielle Paige, has also advanced as a contract scriptwriter. Dave Kreizman, a young man who started out as a production associate on Guiding Light, moved from that to show continuity. He knew he wanted to write, was writing anything and everything he could to get to people. Now he is a major member of the writing team at Guiding Light. Jill Lorie Hurst, the former writers' assistant, is now our editor on Guiding Light. My former assistant, Jennifer Maloney, is an associate producer at As the World Turns. So over the seven years that I have been here, it has been very gratifying to be able to find young talent and nurture them and give them even greater opportunities to become professionally involved in daytime dramas. I think that is something that we all have a responsibility in daytime to try to do.
Procter & Gamble Productions University
We have a special summer intern program here which involves students from all over the country. We just don't send them to a studio and stick them in an office. We have what we call PGP University (PGPU) and we have a series of weekly seminars to which we invite a director, or a writer, or the music supervisor, or the costume designer or the scenic designer from the shows to come in and talk to these kids about how they got to where they are today and about what their jobs entail. So many times the summer interns are production associates who are essentially stuck in an office, sometimes working in production, in casting, or in the writers' office. These seminars give them a much broader scope of what daytime drama is all about and how it really works. We also assign a specific episode to each one of our summer interns. They follow that episode all the way from the writing to the production to the editing, to the scoring and then the airing. They all have a chance to see what it takes to produce an episode from start to finish.
Qualifications for an Executive
My educational background is in theatre and specifically stage managing and directing. I have a B.A. from Webster University in St. Louis and an MFA from Catholic University of America in Washington D.C. I look to stage managers as good creative executives for this field for several reasons. First of all if you are a stage manager, you have to understand drama. You have to have discipline. You have to know how to manage people. You have to know production and production values. And you have to be a hard worker who is willing to go around the clock if necessary which is what it sometimes takes in show business. I feel that theatre departments develop qualified talent for this arena.
My Love Affair with Soaps
I was a soap opera fan when I was a child. I wasn't sick very often, but there was one two week period when I was home sick and I discovered the radio soap operas -- Our Gal Sunday, Lorenzo Jones and His Wife Belle, Stella Dallas and I listened to them from my sick bed. It only took me two weeks and I was hooked. I tried to figure out how I could get a radio into school so that I could go to the restroom and listen to my favorite shows. I never did figure that out but that is where it all began.
As told to Mari Lyn Henry
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